Comments on: Taking the pursuit of holiness too far.

By: visitor

visitor — Fri, 16 Jul 2010 17:27:01 +0000

Agreed, the author was no Christian, much less Catholic, scholar. This was mean to Catholics (fellow Christians) and sadly ignorant. Christians should learn more about the early church, and especially the Roman Catholic Church, which is the foundation other denominations come from. Mocking martyrs? Weird perspective, coming from a Christian. A better source: http://www.catholic.org/saints/

By: Shelly

Shelly — Tue, 24 Nov 2009 20:47:47 +0000

Your blog is pretty funny, but these saints are important in the faith of millions of people, and to focus on the crazy thing they did, well I had a lady pray over me once and pretend she was sword fighting because she was battling demons (demons that came from me marrying a Catholic apparently).

I am not offended I just want to point out that many of these saints did other important , good and sometimes not so good things too.

While some people do take asceticism too far, many Christians could do with a return to some of the disciplines (Try the book A celebration of discipline)

By: katers

katers — Sun, 08 Nov 2009 19:21:55 +0000

It has taken me my whole life (20 years…) to realize something, which I just realized last week, and that is this: The God who reveals himself in the Bible wants my obedience, not my obsessions. Even in the Old Testament this is true. Jason's example of holiness being positive and proactive is exactly what God is saying he wants in Isaiah 58. Whoever said that these reactions were pathological was right, and I don't think it's an attack on the Catholic Church (though they certainly had not done much to deter this kind of thing at the time these saints were alive) to say that Pharasaism in place of acknowledgement of our sin and our need for grace is wrong and actually nullifies Jesus' sacrifice for us on the cross. Galatians 5:1-6.

By: iohannes fac totum

iohannes fac totum — Wed, 23 Sep 2009 02:33:19 +0000

Sweet gouranga! I see you have neglected to mention Origen (or I have overlooked him in my amusement)...
I think a little of the pietist, perfectionist bent comes into every saint (canonized or non), as the gap between the commands of God and my inability to attain them, widens.

Eventually, I end up asking myself, 'Am i doing this for Him, or for me? Am I making war on my sin so I can feel good about myself, or because He would be pleased?'
And then it smacks me...
you'll never be perfect
you're the same sob you were when He found you.
you still need Him as much today as the day you were rescued.

And I speed.

By: Lark

Lark — Sat, 15 Aug 2009 01:56:09 +0000

Sorry, that first link is bad. Here's the correct one:

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/us_world/2009/04/10/2009-04-10_crucifixtion_reenactment_is_annual_good_friday_rite_in_philippines.html

By: Lark

Lark — Sat, 15 Aug 2009 01:53:52 +0000

Although, on the topic of Saint Teresa, I know people who have had unusual experiences like that with Jesus being bodily present (in the sense that they could physically feel His body) but invisible to their eyes. And, hey, Daniel got burning coals on the lips, so why not a burning barb through the heart? Bernini made a rockin' Baroque sculpture out of the whole thing that is seriously beautiful. (http://creerparaver.files.wordpress.com/2007/10/transverberacion-sta-teresa-bernini.jpg)

By: Lark

Lark — Sat, 15 Aug 2009 01:44:26 +0000

Interesting tidbit: Self-enucleation (the removal of one's own eyes) is a form of self-mutilation with apparently no history in cultures outside Christian influence. Weird, eh?

I used to be clinically obsessive compulsive and I can't help but see similarities between things the sick brains and spirits of myself and other OCD patients I know thought God wanted us to do and things these saints did. Not to mention that it's hard to respect, say, people literally starving themselves to death or mutilating their own bodies in the name of God. If we're on that page, then we might as well lend credence to the voluntary crucifixion practices that go on in the Philippines every year in the name of Jesus, since its done out of devotion. (http://www.nydailynews.com/news/us_world/2009/04/10/2009-04-10_crucifixtion_reenactment_is_annual_good_friday_rite_in_philippines.html)

The thread of self-destruction that runs through some of these stories is actually pretty disturbing, moreso that these actions were/are lauded as great examples of holy behavior. Why not respect these efforts to glorify God? Because God is not a God that delights in the infliction of suffering. God is love, God is merciful, He suffered SO WE DIDN'T HAVE TO. I'm a former cutter and that was an important lesson for me to learn, one that's still difficult for me to understand, difficult (I believe) for humanity as a whole, used as we are to the ways of the world where true mercy is hard to come by. In that way you could say that the use of explicit self-destruction as a method to pursue holiness is perhaps more like the world than it is like what we know about God's holiness and nature.

By: Ranee

Ranee — Fri, 14 Aug 2009 18:11:56 +0000

I am trying to write this as gently as possible. I enjoy your blog, I like that it pokes fun at Christian culture and quirks without being insulting. Except when you branch into dealing with things that are seen as Catholic/Liturgical.

This is not the first time that things that are seen as holy by Catholics/Orthodox/Anglicans or practices of personal piety are mocked by people who, frankly, do not understand what is behind them.

Sure, everyone gets a laugh out of those crazy saints and, implicitly, those crazy Catholics who buy such idiocy, but you have not engaged enough even to disagree.

I am not going to get into a debate/discussion about the value of mortification, because I do not think this is the place to do so, nor do I think it would have much effect. However, mocking it without trying to learn or understand it says more about you than those you mock.

There is PLENTY to mock in Evangelical Protestant history, piety, practice, culture and mindset, but it is still pointless and unnecessary to do so. It would still be a sin against my brothers.

I do not know if either Jon or Jason will read this or take it seriously, but the e-mail I have for google is live.

By: Saskia

Saskia — Mon, 03 Aug 2009 08:53:56 +0000

at preacherlady: um, the reason we don't have any archangel jokes is because they are not shown to have a personality in the Bible. You need that to make a joke about them. But check out Christopher Moore's Lamb and you'll be surprised at what he came up with!

By: Saskia

Saskia — Mon, 03 Aug 2009 08:50:16 +0000

I'm really surprised at all the negative comments here. Another commenter said it already, we laugh at weird evangelical stuff all the time, so why are the old saints beyond laughing at? I'm not evangelical, but I'm allowed to laugh at those posts. I'm not Catholic (although with Catholic parents and grandparents I'm more entitled to laugh at this post than at the other ones!)

If we were to apply these comments at the entire blog, Jon would have to shut it down since in every situation described on this blog, there are people only trying to do their best for God.

I personally thought this was a great post. Everyone is a little wacky, and I bet everyone has obsessed a little over a particular issue in their life, going so far as that the focus is not on the issue anymore but on the remedy - like gouging your eyes out instead of facing down your issues with lust. And also, I find it very soothing to be reminded that even the saints were a little weird - and that weird people are still eligible to play good roles in God's kingdom. My God has a sense of humor, I don't know about yours.