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	<title>Comments on: Arguing about taking little kids to big church.</title>
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	<link>http://www.jonacuff.com/stuffchristianslike/2008/07/359-arguing-about-taking-little-kids-to-big-church/</link>
	<description>Musings by Jon Acuff</description>
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		<title>By: D Hudson Everett</title>
		<link>http://www.jonacuff.com/stuffchristianslike/2008/07/359-arguing-about-taking-little-kids-to-big-church/comment-page-3/#comment-201284</link>
		<dc:creator>D Hudson Everett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Jul 2011 01:20:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I think that children&#039;s church is not inherently wrong, but macaroni art, coloring moses and noah pictures.. I feel like once you are 5 or 6 you really do understand more than you are given credit for. I love kids, and I want them to learn.. but I don&#039;t know that we need to have a &quot;child size version&quot; of biblical truth. I am living with a pastor and his family, interning for his church, and I know his 5 year old daughter has had some amazing insights while in &quot;big people&quot; church.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think that children&#8217;s church is not inherently wrong, but macaroni art, coloring moses and noah pictures.. I feel like once you are 5 or 6 you really do understand more than you are given credit for. I love kids, and I want them to learn.. but I don&#8217;t know that we need to have a &#8220;child size version&#8221; of biblical truth. I am living with a pastor and his family, interning for his church, and I know his 5 year old daughter has had some amazing insights while in &#8220;big people&#8221; church.</p>
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		<title>By: Other Kim</title>
		<link>http://www.jonacuff.com/stuffchristianslike/2008/07/359-arguing-about-taking-little-kids-to-big-church/comment-page-1/#comment-119826</link>
		<dc:creator>Other Kim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Aug 2010 10:56:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>It&#039;s children in big church that&#039;s a problem, it&#039;s that they misbehave. If they&#039;re getting vocal, and kicking the pew in front of them, etc. those kids should be taken out. My parents brought us into big church all the time, even my younger brother.  We were only in the nursery when my mom had signed up for nursery.  
 
Here&#039;s her trick: lots of people like to sit in the back, and there are more seats up front. Not only were we mesmerized by the order of worship and what was going  on, but the distractions coming from what was going on in the back of the sanctuary were gone, too. Also,  we knew misbehaving wasn&#039;t an option up front because of how mortifying it would be if we did have to get taken out.  
 
Sitting still is a great skill for school, too. There&#039;s playgrounds and other physical activities that can be a way to let out that pent-up energy. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#039;s children in big church that&#039;s a problem, it&#039;s that they misbehave. If they&#039;re getting vocal, and kicking the pew in front of them, etc. those kids should be taken out. My parents brought us into big church all the time, even my younger brother.  We were only in the nursery when my mom had signed up for nursery.  </p>
<p>Here&#039;s her trick: lots of people like to sit in the back, and there are more seats up front. Not only were we mesmerized by the order of worship and what was going  on, but the distractions coming from what was going on in the back of the sanctuary were gone, too. Also,  we knew misbehaving wasn&#039;t an option up front because of how mortifying it would be if we did have to get taken out.  </p>
<p>Sitting still is a great skill for school, too. There&#039;s playgrounds and other physical activities that can be a way to let out that pent-up energy.</p>
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		<title>By: Julie</title>
		<link>http://www.jonacuff.com/stuffchristianslike/2008/07/359-arguing-about-taking-little-kids-to-big-church/comment-page-3/#comment-118563</link>
		<dc:creator>Julie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Aug 2010 22:07:20 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Wow, this was eye-opening.  When we last visited churches, I didn&#039;t fully realize that all those people who came up and said, &quot;Our children&#039;s ministry is right over there, wouldn&#039;t you like to try it?&quot; were really saying, &quot;We don&#039;t really want your kids here.  This is big church for big people.&quot;  They weren&#039;t just trying to be nice.  I didn&#039;t know.  I guess that was naive of me. 
 
 </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow, this was eye-opening.  When we last visited churches, I didn&#039;t fully realize that all those people who came up and said, &quot;Our children&#039;s ministry is right over there, wouldn&#039;t you like to try it?&quot; were really saying, &quot;We don&#039;t really want your kids here.  This is big church for big people.&quot;  They weren&#039;t just trying to be nice.  I didn&#039;t know.  I guess that was naive of me.</p>
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		<title>By: Sara</title>
		<link>http://www.jonacuff.com/stuffchristianslike/2008/07/359-arguing-about-taking-little-kids-to-big-church/comment-page-3/#comment-93033</link>
		<dc:creator>Sara</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Apr 2010 02:12:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jonacuff.com/stuffchristianslike/2008/07/359-arguing-about-taking-little-kids-to-big-church/#comment-93033</guid>
		<description>As one not to removed from being a kid, I see both sides as well. I remember not getting much out of the sermon as a kindergartener going to Big Church, and even less when I was 10 and I had to look after my 5 year old brother because mom was in the choir. I also cherish the times I spent with my family in church. My church has recently started a cool program where kids in k-5 attend the worship portion of the church service with the adults, then go to a children&#039;s sermon during the real sermon. Best of both worlds.  </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As one not to removed from being a kid, I see both sides as well. I remember not getting much out of the sermon as a kindergartener going to Big Church, and even less when I was 10 and I had to look after my 5 year old brother because mom was in the choir. I also cherish the times I spent with my family in church. My church has recently started a cool program where kids in k-5 attend the worship portion of the church service with the adults, then go to a children&#039;s sermon during the real sermon. Best of both worlds.</p>
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		<title>By: Donna</title>
		<link>http://www.jonacuff.com/stuffchristianslike/2008/07/359-arguing-about-taking-little-kids-to-big-church/comment-page-3/#comment-64339</link>
		<dc:creator>Donna</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Dec 2009 21:49:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jonacuff.com/stuffchristianslike/2008/07/359-arguing-about-taking-little-kids-to-big-church/#comment-64339</guid>
		<description>We don&#039;t have a children&#039;s church except for the nursery, so my 5 yr old goes to church with me, and then we all go to our different Sunday School classes. It works out fairly well. While yes, she does color or draw or read her bible during the sermon, she&#039;s made enough comments that it&#039;s obvious she&#039;s also listening. And since she goes to a Christian school during the week, which follows the lectionary, she&#039;s getting the same scripture at her level in whole-school Chapel services and in &quot;Jesus Time&quot; in her kindergarten classroom-so often, by Sunday, when we&#039;ve done our time at home, SHE&#039;S taught me what to expect. 
 
Having said that, when there&#039;s no Children&#039;s program available, or even if there is, I&#039;d appreciate it if the Pastor would put a parental warning on services where they&#039;re going to go into detail about, say, Sexual immorality-which isn&#039;t something I really want to explain to a 5 yr old who suddenly seems to absorb every single word. 
 
FWIW, we also choose to go to the traditional service, in part because my daughter finds the praise band &quot;too loud&quot;, and loves the organ and cantor of the traditional.  
 
 </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We don&#039;t have a children&#039;s church except for the nursery, so my 5 yr old goes to church with me, and then we all go to our different Sunday School classes. It works out fairly well. While yes, she does color or draw or read her bible during the sermon, she&#039;s made enough comments that it&#039;s obvious she&#039;s also listening. And since she goes to a Christian school during the week, which follows the lectionary, she&#039;s getting the same scripture at her level in whole-school Chapel services and in &quot;Jesus Time&quot; in her kindergarten classroom-so often, by Sunday, when we&#039;ve done our time at home, SHE&#039;S taught me what to expect. </p>
<p>Having said that, when there&#039;s no Children&#039;s program available, or even if there is, I&#039;d appreciate it if the Pastor would put a parental warning on services where they&#039;re going to go into detail about, say, Sexual immorality-which isn&#039;t something I really want to explain to a 5 yr old who suddenly seems to absorb every single word. </p>
<p>FWIW, we also choose to go to the traditional service, in part because my daughter finds the praise band &quot;too loud&quot;, and loves the organ and cantor of the traditional.</p>
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		<title>By: Sean</title>
		<link>http://www.jonacuff.com/stuffchristianslike/2008/07/359-arguing-about-taking-little-kids-to-big-church/comment-page-3/#comment-15703</link>
		<dc:creator>Sean</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Aug 2008 09:12:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jonacuff.com/stuffchristianslike/2008/07/359-arguing-about-taking-little-kids-to-big-church/#comment-15703</guid>
		<description>Way late to this discussion, but I wanted to chime in some support and clarification for some points that were mentioned already.  If I&#039;m reading through all the comments this late, surely someone else is too.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;I personally would completely toss out the, &quot;distracting to non-believers,&quot; argument.  While I&#039;m not saying it&#039;s bad for church services to be open and not excluding non-believers, the trend of explicitly catering to non-believers during services (usually at some detriment to mature believers) came about out of our own laziness and cowardice to do God&#039;s will.  Instead of service being a communion with believers to refresh and instruct for the week&#039;s mission work, we just lump everything into Sunday and make our only mission to simply invite people to our &quot;seeker-friendly&quot; church.  &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;And in many cases, too, the whole choice between big/little church is too respectful to the world and disrespectful to God.  It doesn&#039;t matter that you live in the suburbs, or that Timmy has a 1 PM select youth soccer match on every Sunday; it is not unreasonable to expect a commitment to faithful attendance at a regular worship service and pre/post-service education.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;By all means, have a Sunday School, but don&#039;t force it as an either-or with your main worship service.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Way late to this discussion, but I wanted to chime in some support and clarification for some points that were mentioned already.  If I&#8217;m reading through all the comments this late, surely someone else is too.</p>
<p>I personally would completely toss out the, &#8220;distracting to non-believers,&#8221; argument.  While I&#8217;m not saying it&#8217;s bad for church services to be open and not excluding non-believers, the trend of explicitly catering to non-believers during services (usually at some detriment to mature believers) came about out of our own laziness and cowardice to do God&#8217;s will.  Instead of service being a communion with believers to refresh and instruct for the week&#8217;s mission work, we just lump everything into Sunday and make our only mission to simply invite people to our &#8220;seeker-friendly&#8221; church.  </p>
<p>And in many cases, too, the whole choice between big/little church is too respectful to the world and disrespectful to God.  It doesn&#8217;t matter that you live in the suburbs, or that Timmy has a 1 PM select youth soccer match on every Sunday; it is not unreasonable to expect a commitment to faithful attendance at a regular worship service and pre/post-service education.</p>
<p>By all means, have a Sunday School, but don&#8217;t force it as an either-or with your main worship service.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.jonacuff.com/stuffchristianslike/2008/07/359-arguing-about-taking-little-kids-to-big-church/comment-page-3/#comment-15349</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Aug 2008 01:53:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>In our family of six children, 3 boys and 3 girls, we have always attended the worship service together. We find it a blessing to find out what the Bible text and hymns will be before Sunday and go over them as a family. We may memorize a key verse, write down key words, write down questions we may have, draw pictures of concepts for the younger ones, etc. Each child takes his journal to church and can take notes or draw pictures for our after- church discussions. We have found that if you consider the age and development of your child and get them ready for Sunday in advance, no one is bored, and we enjoy the lively discussions thath we have together.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;As my Grandpa used to say about having his whole family in church, &quot;We all came together, I guess I always figured we should all sit together&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In our family of six children, 3 boys and 3 girls, we have always attended the worship service together. We find it a blessing to find out what the Bible text and hymns will be before Sunday and go over them as a family. We may memorize a key verse, write down key words, write down questions we may have, draw pictures of concepts for the younger ones, etc. Each child takes his journal to church and can take notes or draw pictures for our after- church discussions. We have found that if you consider the age and development of your child and get them ready for Sunday in advance, no one is bored, and we enjoy the lively discussions thath we have together.</p>
<p>As my Grandpa used to say about having his whole family in church, &#8220;We all came together, I guess I always figured we should all sit together&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: von</title>
		<link>http://www.jonacuff.com/stuffchristianslike/2008/07/359-arguing-about-taking-little-kids-to-big-church/comment-page-3/#comment-15110</link>
		<dc:creator>von</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Aug 2008 05:46:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jonacuff.com/stuffchristianslike/2008/07/359-arguing-about-taking-little-kids-to-big-church/#comment-15110</guid>
		<description>Voddie Baucham gives an interesting address about the nature of the church that relates to this discussion:&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;http://www.uu.edu/audio/chapel/fall05/102605.wma</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Voddie Baucham gives an interesting address about the nature of the church that relates to this discussion:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.uu.edu/audio/chapel/fall05/102605.wma" rel="nofollow">http://www.uu.edu/audio/chapel/fall05/102605.wma</a></p>
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		<title>By: Anne</title>
		<link>http://www.jonacuff.com/stuffchristianslike/2008/07/359-arguing-about-taking-little-kids-to-big-church/comment-page-3/#comment-15106</link>
		<dc:creator>Anne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Aug 2008 04:38:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jonacuff.com/stuffchristianslike/2008/07/359-arguing-about-taking-little-kids-to-big-church/#comment-15106</guid>
		<description>Little kids in big church don&#039;t bother me one bit. What I find annoying is the adults trying to shush them, but making more of a commotion than the kids themselves. Everyone - including the moms and dads - would be better off if they spent their time listening to the sermon and not focused on the kids... (Not talking about when the kids is actually screaming - then by all means just pick them up and take them out.)&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;And where do you guys get this &quot;teaching children to sit still&quot; thing? Have you ever actually watched a group of ADULTS in church? We don&#039;t sit still and concentrate either. We text, chat, leave to go to the bathroom, read the bulletin during the sermon, look around to see who didn&#039;t make it to church today, etc. &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Let&#039;s face it, we are all just big babies who want things our own way.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Little kids in big church don&#8217;t bother me one bit. What I find annoying is the adults trying to shush them, but making more of a commotion than the kids themselves. Everyone &#8211; including the moms and dads &#8211; would be better off if they spent their time listening to the sermon and not focused on the kids&#8230; (Not talking about when the kids is actually screaming &#8211; then by all means just pick them up and take them out.)</p>
<p>And where do you guys get this &#8220;teaching children to sit still&#8221; thing? Have you ever actually watched a group of ADULTS in church? We don&#8217;t sit still and concentrate either. We text, chat, leave to go to the bathroom, read the bulletin during the sermon, look around to see who didn&#8217;t make it to church today, etc. </p>
<p>Let&#8217;s face it, we are all just big babies who want things our own way.</p>
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		<title>By: The Lone Roo</title>
		<link>http://www.jonacuff.com/stuffchristianslike/2008/07/359-arguing-about-taking-little-kids-to-big-church/comment-page-3/#comment-15077</link>
		<dc:creator>The Lone Roo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Jul 2008 22:04:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.jonacuff.com/stuffchristianslike/2008/07/359-arguing-about-taking-little-kids-to-big-church/#comment-15077</guid>
		<description>I have enjoyed many of the posts on this blog and have identified with those strange things we do in the name of worship (hand holding, fake greetings etc.).&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;However, this post on children in &quot;big church&quot; really got my attention. As a home school family we have debated over the years how our family would worship and what programs we would have our children involved with. We decided that we wanted all our family together for the worship service. We have noticed that it is becoming the trend in most churches for families to be separated for most of the church service, either by children&#039;s church or some other program that is promoted as a way for parents to worship and learn without having to worry about their kids.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;It seems to me that most parent&#039;s excuse for wanting their kids seperated stems from their inability to impart loving discipline to their child. Yes, it is possible for your child to sit quietly for the service and even if it does become difficult for you, it is after all just a season of life. Parents, it is your task to train your child, not the program directors or youth ministers . As to those who say that the church service is not appropriate for children, I would reply that this is the problem with  the modern church which doesn&#039;t really address the needs of families and has become so feminized that most men/dads are bored silly as well as their kids.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Youth programs/Sunday school/children&#039;s church do little more than entertain kids and do very little to develop them into authentic believers. Sunday schools and youth groups seem to be part of the growing problem whereby 70% of children raised in Christian homes   walk away from Christianity by their first year of college (I think it is even earlier than this).&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;When kids can no longer be excused from the church service to attend the special &quot;program&quot; they find church is boring and not fun. Instead of teaching our kids to be self disciplined, we are contributing to the modern problem where most children and teens brains are so over stimulated by &quot;fun&quot; things that they can&#039;t listen to a 20 minute sermon.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;I think the church model should be more like this church: http://www.hofcc.org/ in Troutdale, Oregon that promotes family worship and trains fathers to be the spiritual head of the home.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Children don&#039;t need to be little adults and sit like zombies during the service, there are some great ideas posted in other peoples comments that can help keep your child sitting quietly while observing their parents worshiping God. I think we are falling into the belief that parents can&#039;t raise children without intervention from experts. &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Verses such as &quot;Don&#039;t forsake the assembling together...&quot; and Jesus chastising the disciples for not letting the &quot;little ones to come unto me&quot; (the disciples thought that the kiddies would get in the way and be too noisy etc.) seem to indicate to me that we should all be together to worship.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have enjoyed many of the posts on this blog and have identified with those strange things we do in the name of worship (hand holding, fake greetings etc.).</p>
<p>However, this post on children in &#8220;big church&#8221; really got my attention. As a home school family we have debated over the years how our family would worship and what programs we would have our children involved with. We decided that we wanted all our family together for the worship service. We have noticed that it is becoming the trend in most churches for families to be separated for most of the church service, either by children&#8217;s church or some other program that is promoted as a way for parents to worship and learn without having to worry about their kids.</p>
<p>It seems to me that most parent&#8217;s excuse for wanting their kids seperated stems from their inability to impart loving discipline to their child. Yes, it is possible for your child to sit quietly for the service and even if it does become difficult for you, it is after all just a season of life. Parents, it is your task to train your child, not the program directors or youth ministers . As to those who say that the church service is not appropriate for children, I would reply that this is the problem with  the modern church which doesn&#8217;t really address the needs of families and has become so feminized that most men/dads are bored silly as well as their kids.</p>
<p>Youth programs/Sunday school/children&#8217;s church do little more than entertain kids and do very little to develop them into authentic believers. Sunday schools and youth groups seem to be part of the growing problem whereby 70% of children raised in Christian homes   walk away from Christianity by their first year of college (I think it is even earlier than this).</p>
<p>When kids can no longer be excused from the church service to attend the special &#8220;program&#8221; they find church is boring and not fun. Instead of teaching our kids to be self disciplined, we are contributing to the modern problem where most children and teens brains are so over stimulated by &#8220;fun&#8221; things that they can&#8217;t listen to a 20 minute sermon.</p>
<p>I think the church model should be more like this church: <a href="http://www.hofcc.org/" rel="nofollow">http://www.hofcc.org/</a> in Troutdale, Oregon that promotes family worship and trains fathers to be the spiritual head of the home.</p>
<p>Children don&#8217;t need to be little adults and sit like zombies during the service, there are some great ideas posted in other peoples comments that can help keep your child sitting quietly while observing their parents worshiping God. I think we are falling into the belief that parents can&#8217;t raise children without intervention from experts. </p>
<p>Verses such as &#8220;Don&#8217;t forsake the assembling together&#8230;&#8221; and Jesus chastising the disciples for not letting the &#8220;little ones to come unto me&#8221; (the disciples thought that the kiddies would get in the way and be too noisy etc.) seem to indicate to me that we should all be together to worship.</p>
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