Comments on: Subtly finding out if you drink beer too. http://www.jonacuff.com/stuffchristianslike/2008/02/34-subtly-finding-out-if-you-drink-beer-too/ Musings by Jon Acuff Thu, 09 Feb 2012 02:50:59 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Russ http://www.jonacuff.com/stuffchristianslike/2008/02/34-subtly-finding-out-if-you-drink-beer-too/comment-page-1/#comment-199632 Russ Thu, 14 Jul 2011 19:13:00 +0000 http://www.jonacuff.com/stuffchristianslike/2008/02/34-subtly-finding-out-if-you-drink-beer-too/#comment-199632 The line is when the alcohol has effected your thinking and self-control (the reason God tells us not to be drunk). It's simple, enjoy it and stay away from that line. Do you stay away from food all together because you might like something too much and therefore eat too much of it? The line is when the alcohol has effected your thinking and self-control (the reason God tells us not to be drunk). It’s simple, enjoy it and stay away from that line. Do you stay away from food all together because you might like something too much and therefore eat too much of it?

]]> By: Mommy L http://www.jonacuff.com/stuffchristianslike/2008/02/34-subtly-finding-out-if-you-drink-beer-too/comment-page-2/#comment-197346 Mommy L Thu, 30 Jun 2011 19:37:44 +0000 http://www.jonacuff.com/stuffchristianslike/2008/02/34-subtly-finding-out-if-you-drink-beer-too/#comment-197346 I drink a little. But I hate beer. I just don't like the taste. I drink a little. But I hate beer. I just don’t like the taste.

]]> By: Jennifer http://www.jonacuff.com/stuffchristianslike/2008/02/34-subtly-finding-out-if-you-drink-beer-too/comment-page-2/#comment-187036 Jennifer Wed, 04 May 2011 22:03:16 +0000 http://www.jonacuff.com/stuffchristianslike/2008/02/34-subtly-finding-out-if-you-drink-beer-too/#comment-187036 My husband brews, for our small group, and we meet in our living room where our 6-tap beer fridge sits. He even brewed a commercial batch at a local brew pub and two small groups from our church attended his beer release party. One group even held their study on Philippians there that night. Take that "unchurched" Portland brew pubbers. My husband brews, for our small group, and we meet in our living room where our 6-tap beer fridge sits. He even brewed a commercial batch at a local brew pub and two small groups from our church attended his beer release party. One group even held their study on Philippians there that night. Take that “unchurched” Portland brew pubbers.

]]> By: Scott Countryman http://www.jonacuff.com/stuffchristianslike/2008/02/34-subtly-finding-out-if-you-drink-beer-too/comment-page-1/#comment-166127 Scott Countryman Mon, 24 Jan 2011 21:40:12 +0000 http://www.jonacuff.com/stuffchristianslike/2008/02/34-subtly-finding-out-if-you-drink-beer-too/#comment-166127 That's totally cool. John Wesley took up drinking for just the opposite reason. He was afraid people would look at him abstaining and think that it was necessary to be a good Christian. When he realized what was going on he started drinking in public to provide a better witness to his religious watchers. That’s totally cool. John Wesley took up drinking for just the opposite reason. He was afraid people would look at him abstaining and think that it was necessary to be a good Christian. When he realized what was going on he started drinking in public to provide a better witness to his religious watchers.

]]> By: Scott Countryman http://www.jonacuff.com/stuffchristianslike/2008/02/34-subtly-finding-out-if-you-drink-beer-too/comment-page-1/#comment-166124 Scott Countryman Mon, 24 Jan 2011 21:30:17 +0000 http://www.jonacuff.com/stuffchristianslike/2008/02/34-subtly-finding-out-if-you-drink-beer-too/#comment-166124 I understand this argument, but we must consider something. What is basically being said here is that it is less proper, less okay, less holy (perhaps) to have a drink and possibly have someone who doesn't know us take away the wrong message. My issue with that is that Jesus drank. He didn't get drunk, He didn't sin, but He did partake. You can't understand either the Hebrew or Greek vocabulary, or the clear and obvious meaning of the Bible's statements on this and not hold to that fact. If you don't agree with that, I'm sorry. You are making things up in your head. So if Jesus (God the Son incarnate and thus both God and man) was the only completely proper, completely okay, completely holy person that ever lived and He was not a teetotaler, mustn't I be careful with my own attitudes and voiced opinions? If I proclaim all alcohol as evil, which many of my Baptist friends do, I then by association assigned sin to Christ, not to mention the law that required quite a bit of wine and/or beer (shekar) to be poured out on God's altar as a libation. If you understand the OT, God doesn't allow the evil or profane on His altar. Only the precious and faultless. If I proclaim that having a drink is okay, but I refrain because I don't want to mislead anybody, am I not then stating that in this manner I am elevated above the example left to us by Christ? Jesus knew the Pharisees were watching Him, and He attended dinner parties where alcohol was served (they exaggerated and called Him a glutton and a wine-bibber, but the basic fact that He enjoyed attending dinner parties was true - that's where the sinners were). He bid His disciples and all of us, by the way, to drink wine (not "must", not unaged gleukos, but the 'fruit of the vine' in the Lord's supper. Research that term in Hebrew. It always means alcoholic wine). It was called fruit of the vine to differentiate it from other products such as fermented figs, other fruits, etc. The grape harvest in Israel is in June, July, August, and September. Passover is in late March, early April. So we are 6 to 6.5 months after the harvest that they are drinking what is in the cup. No refrigeration in the first century... root cellars don't cut it. It was alcohol in the cup that preserved the wine. Honestly I think sometimes folks don't own a calendar or know how to do word studies (If I may briefly vent). Jesus didn't seem to have a problem with offending religious people with overly developed scruples. Therefore I don't either. If I have an idea that I truly might cause someone to stumble by having a beer or a glass of wine, then I won't. But I won't abstain just to please Jim and Jill Churchie either. My job as a preacher is to build up the body of Christ in faith. Paul called such scruples as this 'weak faith'. I think some owe it to others to set a better example... perhaps the example of Christ would suffice??? I understand this argument, but we must consider something. What is basically being said here is that it is less proper, less okay, less holy (perhaps) to have a drink and possibly have someone who doesn’t know us take away the wrong message.

My issue with that is that Jesus drank. He didn’t get drunk, He didn’t sin, but He did partake. You can’t understand either the Hebrew or Greek vocabulary, or the clear and obvious meaning of the Bible’s statements on this and not hold to that fact. If you don’t agree with that, I’m sorry. You are making things up in your head.

So if Jesus (God the Son incarnate and thus both God and man) was the only completely proper, completely okay, completely holy person that ever lived and He was not a teetotaler, mustn’t I be careful with my own attitudes and voiced opinions?

If I proclaim all alcohol as evil, which many of my Baptist friends do, I then by association assigned sin to Christ, not to mention the law that required quite a bit of wine and/or beer (shekar) to be poured out on God’s altar as a libation. If you understand the OT, God doesn’t allow the evil or profane on His altar. Only the precious and faultless.

If I proclaim that having a drink is okay, but I refrain because I don’t want to mislead anybody, am I not then stating that in this manner I am elevated above the example left to us by Christ?

Jesus knew the Pharisees were watching Him, and He attended dinner parties where alcohol was served (they exaggerated and called Him a glutton and a wine-bibber, but the basic fact that He enjoyed attending dinner parties was true – that’s where the sinners were). He bid His disciples and all of us, by the way, to drink wine (not “must”, not unaged gleukos, but the ‘fruit of the vine’ in the Lord’s supper. Research that term in Hebrew. It always means alcoholic wine). It was called fruit of the vine to differentiate it from other products such as fermented figs, other fruits, etc.

The grape harvest in Israel is in June, July, August, and September. Passover is in late March, early April. So we are 6 to 6.5 months after the harvest that they are drinking what is in the cup. No refrigeration in the first century… root cellars don’t cut it. It was alcohol in the cup that preserved the wine. Honestly I think sometimes folks don’t own a calendar or know how to do word studies (If I may briefly vent).

Jesus didn’t seem to have a problem with offending religious people with overly developed scruples. Therefore I don’t either.

If I have an idea that I truly might cause someone to stumble by having a beer or a glass of wine, then I won’t. But I won’t abstain just to please Jim and Jill Churchie either. My job as a preacher is to build up the body of Christ in faith. Paul called such scruples as this ‘weak faith’. I think some owe it to others to set a better example… perhaps the example of Christ would suffice???

]]> By: Scott Countryman http://www.jonacuff.com/stuffchristianslike/2008/02/34-subtly-finding-out-if-you-drink-beer-too/comment-page-1/#comment-166121 Scott Countryman Mon, 24 Jan 2011 21:09:58 +0000 http://www.jonacuff.com/stuffchristianslike/2008/02/34-subtly-finding-out-if-you-drink-beer-too/#comment-166121 That isn't exactly the whole story. Pliny the Elder (23AD - 79AD) talked about a particular wine (Falernian) that you could actually light with a candle flame, meaning it had a higher alcoholic content that wine today. It does appear that while Old Testament Israel did not dilute their wine with water, New Testament Israel did - most likely because of the Greek influence brought in by Alexander the Great. It wasn't a pious, Jewish thing - it was a cultural thing. For those that are interested, a great word study and historical inspection of alcohol and the Bible can be found for free on Books.google.com. I've linked to it below: Religion and Drink: http://books.google.com/books?id=6ExJAAAAIAAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=drink+and+religion&hl=en&ei=Euk9Td_9JMT6lwfN7PncBg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=6&ved=0CDwQ6AEwBQ#v=onepage&q=candle&f=false Take care, /Scott. That isn’t exactly the whole story. Pliny the Elder (23AD – 79AD) talked about a particular wine (Falernian) that you could actually light with a candle flame, meaning it had a higher alcoholic content that wine today.

It does appear that while Old Testament Israel did not dilute their wine with water, New Testament Israel did – most likely because of the Greek influence brought in by Alexander the Great. It wasn’t a pious, Jewish thing – it was a cultural thing.

For those that are interested, a great word study and historical inspection of alcohol and the Bible can be found for free on Books.google.com. I’ve linked to it below:

Religion and Drink:
http://books.google.com/books?id=6ExJAAAAIAAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=drink+and+religion&hl=en&ei=Euk9Td_9JMT6lwfN7PncBg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=6&ved=0CDwQ6AEwBQ#v=onepage&q=candle&f=false

Take care,
/Scott.

]]> By: Miles http://www.jonacuff.com/stuffchristianslike/2008/02/34-subtly-finding-out-if-you-drink-beer-too/comment-page-1/#comment-159384 Miles Thu, 23 Dec 2010 05:10:33 +0000 http://www.jonacuff.com/stuffchristianslike/2008/02/34-subtly-finding-out-if-you-drink-beer-too/#comment-159384 I don't drink. Why not? Because God told me not to. And you know what that says about you drinking, well do ya??? Nothing. Nothing at all. He told *me* not to drink. He didn't say drinking was bad, he just said I shouldn't, so I don't. There have been a handful of special occasions where I have had a taste of something, mostly because it meant something special to someone (like when Dad had made champagne for our wedding, etc). I can't find ANY Scriptural basis for a blanket prohibition of alcohol. The case against it seems pretty much man-made. I don’t drink. Why not? Because God told me not to. And you know what that says about you drinking, well do ya???
Nothing. Nothing at all. He told *me* not to drink. He didn’t say drinking was bad, he just said I shouldn’t, so I don’t. There have been a handful of special occasions where I have had a taste of something, mostly because it meant something special to someone (like when Dad had made champagne for our wedding, etc). I can’t find ANY Scriptural basis for a blanket prohibition of alcohol. The case against it seems pretty much man-made.

]]> By: Rebecca http://www.jonacuff.com/stuffchristianslike/2008/02/34-subtly-finding-out-if-you-drink-beer-too/comment-page-1/#comment-152159 Rebecca Thu, 02 Dec 2010 01:22:58 +0000 http://www.jonacuff.com/stuffchristianslike/2008/02/34-subtly-finding-out-if-you-drink-beer-too/#comment-152159 Agreed. I don't drink because I think the possibility of getting drunk is decently high (after all, your inhibition starts going down way before you actually get drunk), and more importantly, the smell of beer makes me sick to my stomach. Had to leave a wedding reception early once because everyone was drinking and the smell was just too overwhelming. My husband doesn't drink because he thinks alcohol tastes nasty, and he doesn't want to get drunk. I honestly don't care if someone else drinks. Seriously, don't care. As long as you don't drive, that is your business. However, we are both college students, so every single party revolves around drinking. I don't mind people getting drunk around me, sometimes they are funny to watch, but the party gets old quickly when the entire point of the party is to drink yourself into oblivion. Then when we don't ever go to the drinking parties, people assume we just don't ever want to party/hang out. We still attend the Christmas party for our old Episcopal choir, and they, including the pastor, drink during the party. Nobody gets drunk, the alcohol isn't the focal point of the party, and we have a fantastic time. Agreed. I don’t drink because I think the possibility of getting drunk is decently high (after all, your inhibition starts going down way before you actually get drunk), and more importantly, the smell of beer makes me sick to my stomach. Had to leave a wedding reception early once because everyone was drinking and the smell was just too overwhelming. My husband doesn’t drink because he thinks alcohol tastes nasty, and he doesn’t want to get drunk. I honestly don’t care if someone else drinks. Seriously, don’t care. As long as you don’t drive, that is your business.

However, we are both college students, so every single party revolves around drinking. I don’t mind people getting drunk around me, sometimes they are funny to watch, but the party gets old quickly when the entire point of the party is to drink yourself into oblivion. Then when we don’t ever go to the drinking parties, people assume we just don’t ever want to party/hang out.
We still attend the Christmas party for our old Episcopal choir, and they, including the pastor, drink during the party. Nobody gets drunk, the alcohol isn’t the focal point of the party, and we have a fantastic time.

]]> By: Bill http://www.jonacuff.com/stuffchristianslike/2008/02/34-subtly-finding-out-if-you-drink-beer-too/comment-page-1/#comment-151816 Bill Tue, 30 Nov 2010 22:12:46 +0000 http://www.jonacuff.com/stuffchristianslike/2008/02/34-subtly-finding-out-if-you-drink-beer-too/#comment-151816 Very much to the point,I think you nailed it. Very much to the point,I think you nailed it.

]]> By: Carol http://www.jonacuff.com/stuffchristianslike/2008/02/34-subtly-finding-out-if-you-drink-beer-too/comment-page-1/#comment-142716 Carol Thu, 28 Oct 2010 22:28:57 +0000 http://www.jonacuff.com/stuffchristianslike/2008/02/34-subtly-finding-out-if-you-drink-beer-too/#comment-142716 And I too really enjoy going to a good bar and enjoying the atmosphere/music/culture of beer :) And I too really enjoy going to a good bar and enjoying the atmosphere/music/culture of beer :)

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